Episode 35: "Don't Stop Experimenting"

Marshall Atkinson  

For creating unique designs for apparel, what medium do you use and typically stick to for orders? How do you learn something unique? On today's Success Stories podcast, we'll speak with Artem Ionitsa owner of Logo Unlimited in Woodinville Washington about He's created a unique approach to satisfying customers by offering a wide range of decoration methods. Logo Unlimited employs traditional screen printing and embroidery, but also offers laser etching heat transfers, dye sublimation, embossing or debossing applique patches, and custom labels plus mixing anything together for a multimedia approach. In this episode, we'll learn how Artem got started. And how he's learned the best way to sell more merchandise by offering a bigger selection of decoration techniques for his customers. So Artem, how're you doing today, buddy?

Artem Ionitsa  

Oh, good. Oh, good. Marshall, how are you? Thank you for having me.

Marshall Atkinson  

Yeah, very excited. And we met for the first time I think at the Shirt Lab port. One event. Wasn't that

Artem Ionitsa  

bright that that's correct. Yes. Three years ago, I believe. Yeah. Yeah.

Marshall Atkinson  

You won our rock, paper Scissors champion. You're the champ

Artem Ionitsa  

The champ. The first time I played?

Marshall Atkinson  

Yeah. So before we kind of get into anything, why don't you tell everyone about your business? How did you get started in the industry and what do you do and who your customers are? 

Artem Ionitsa  

Oh, boy, where do I begin? So I started seven years ago, well guess six or seven years ago, started by because I was bored. I needed something to do. I used to be in the import-export business. Well, mostly export, not too much of input, mostly export. And I used to export fresh produce. So I used to be the king of fresh produce, and well, fresh produce. And I did all kinds of things. It was amazing. Until it all came down to and then when Russia took over Crimea, Obama didn't like that very much. He put the sanctions on Russia in my business that shut down pretty much overnight. So I needed to do something. And my first business idea was to go in the white for my printing, which did not work out. And then I said well, a parallel we sell off the barrel. I always hated left chest embroidery. And I said, Why do I give it a try? And I did. And I didn't know. I didn't know a lot. I still don't. So that's why I wouldn't call it the success story yet just yet. But I'm getting there slowly. Unfortunately, not as fast as I like to but I'm getting there.

Marshall Atkinson  

Okay. So and who are your customers? 

Artem Ionitsa  

Everyone? So I -- as of, well, pre-COVID I got on a list of preferred vendors list for Microsoft and Amazon. So those are my favorite customers. I am huge in commercial fishing up in Alaska. I service maybe 90% Of all the commercial fishing companies up in Alaska. So they're just getting with me because Alaska, Russia now. So that was the material for me.

Marshall Atkinson  

So you've got the connection. Right? 

Artem Ionitsa  

I got the connection. Yes. So fishing is huge for me. And I love fishing companies because they constantly reorder for new crews arriving to work on trips or processing plants. I work with T-Mobile, Boeing, well, Boeing not so much actually, I'm scared of Boeing right now. But I mean, I'm in Washington State. So Woodinville is only about 30 minutes away from Seattle. So all the tech companies they're all here. So I tend to go after I conquered the fishing industry. I still have a few companies that are on the loose but I hope to get them by the end of this year. After I conquer the fishing industry. I definitely going to go after tech companies there is a lot of the problem is they're all working from home. 

Marshall Atkinson  

Well, we have to -- we're gonna talk about that probably. So let's start with your sales for us. To be So, you have so many different ways to decorate apparel. How do you discern what might work best for your customers? How do you differentiate yourself?

Artem Ionitsa  

Well, differentiating myself is just by having everything here in-house. That's my number one, because I didn't screenprint until two days, two years ago. So, and all I did was, well, I did a lot of different things, but screen printing was not one of them. So I brought all of this decoration technical in the house, is just because there's nobody out there that can do really creative stuff with all of these decoration techniques. And I didn't know well, most of them I knew about because before I started this business, I read a lot about everything. And so I knew what's cool, what's not cool. So for me, if the client walks in, and I asked him, what have they done in the past, most likely to left chest and Berger. And like I said before, I hate left chest embroidery. So for me to offer any decoration technique, except left chest embroidery is extremely easy. So and that's my whole philosophy. You working unless you want the left chest number, they'll give you a left chest number there. But if you come here for options, ideas, inspiration, I'll give you that.

Marshall Atkinson  

And do you have a lookbook? Or a bunch of samples or samples?

Artem Ionitsa  

Yes, I do have a tiny showroom. I wish it was three times bigger. So I can show all of my samples. But I'm the delay the samples that I have in my showroom I created. Well, two years ago, I had the big expo here in Seattle. And I had a bunch of samples from before. And I'm like, No, for the expo, we'll create a new batch of samples because I just got tired of looking at my old samples. So we took a week to design about 20, maybe more concepts a week to design and we took a week to make those prototypes. And there are amazing, and they're old. I mean, I already have a bunch of new ideas. It's just we don't have time to make them right now. Even with my old temples, clients, I had the person from Xbox, randomly walk in. Because she used some company, they get embroider you know, the Xbox logo on the sleeve in the look like crap. And she's like, I'm looking for somebody who can do this embroidery, and I said, Why embroidery? Here are their options. And we're still gonna do embroidery on this first order. But she's like, "Oh, my God, like you have so so much." And boom, that's it. And that's all it took for her to wander around my showroom for five minutes to understand that I know my stuff.

Marshall Atkinson  

And did you, you know, for her or other clients? Are you creating custom samples for them with their artwork or their logo, so they can really see the possibilities?

Artem Ionitsa  

Always I hate the companies that put their logos on crap, and they give you a sample or it's a gift if it's a cool logo, maybe, but usually, it's never a cool logo and it's like why are you giving me your brand that you know sample like I'm not gonna, wear it I'm not gonna represent your company. So I hated this idea since day one. So if I target a potential client it doesn't matter who but like I said on your nightstand. I already did this. This is my seventh year, I'm tired of the 40-piece orders. So I want to go corporate I want to bring value I want to give them something unique and different something that they haven't seen before. So when I create sample packs, depending on the business, I would usually attend stay away from screenprint samples. laser etching would be my number one because it's the easiest to make. Or multimedia laser-etching and embroidery always look amazing deboss for me, the same thing, I can get a Gibbes di neat for if I do again order maybe for 20 bucks 30 bucks, if that. So I don't want to give them the same stuff that they ordered before and I know if I give them multimedia or deboss sample or something like that. I know they haven't seen it so I know I'm gonna wow them just with those few samples. And they usually Since we're in the Pacific Northwest, everyone's worst fleece around here. So it's easy to work with. And it's the best fabric for me to work on as far as the laser etching goes. So it's extremely easy to create a unique sample. And I would do you know, like a fleece garment, I will do a fleece B and I always do a polo or a softshell jacket that I would deboss or do multimedia. So, and I would put it in a nice fancy box, I would laser-etched the box with their logo on it and say something clever inside the box that is laser-etched. So when this person gets this sample box, my success rate, let's say is 99% Unless it's their family member that sells them garments, or somebody else.

Marshall Atkinson  

I love it. I love it. There's always that guy. Is there my cousin Eddie, he can do it.

Artem Ionitsa  

Exactly. So those relationships I stay away from, but I mean, it's not that I stay away, I say, "Hey, you can still use your guide for your embroidery and screen printing. But when you want something cool and unique for your clients, or your vendors, or whatever, let me handle that." Right. So that's how I handle situations like that. Because everyone's screenprint everyone embroiders there are not so many companies that do laser etching and even fewer companies that do emboss or deboss on apparel. So that's why I call these decoration techniques. My door openers.

Marshall Atkinson  

Yes. So let's talk about laser etched patches on hats because that's such a booming trend right now. Why walk us through your process Artem on selling that order developing the art executing production? What are the tricks that you guys do to make that successful?

Artem Ionitsa  

I don't necessarily want to talk about how to live their patches because they're boring. And everyone is doing the same thing. Will they be doing something else? Something else? Well, I'm not saying that stay away with it. Like what I started doing. And COVID time was the best time for me because I was able to experiment with a lot of different things that I wouldn't do otherwise. So a leather patch. So I have two types of lasers, I have a Galva laser, I mean by Permaboss, that laser is specifically designed to do laser etching on apparel. So you can do laser etching on apparel, you can do applique cases, you can do a lot of different things with it. And I also have a small epilog laser, which is like a plotter type of those lines and that takes forever. And I hate that laser because it just takes too long. The art that I do on my epilog the table, you know the plotter type laser, I can do I mean, it takes me seconds example left chest laser edge, let's call it four inches wide, it will take me three seconds to do on my Galva laser on the plotter it is gonna take a minute or two or three depending on the design. So since I have two types, sets of laser, I can do a lot of different things. So talking about leather patches, boring, popular but boring. And I hate them because everyone is doing it. They can get them anywhere, anywhere. So I said I'm gonna stop doing them. I mean, like them, but I in my head, I said it to myself, we're gonna stop doing that and we're gonna start offering something else.

Marshall Atkinson  

Cause you don't want to be a commodity.

Artem Ionitsa  

Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Because that's the thing that I hate the most people coming in and go in, you know, we can give the same page for a buck less like go like I'm not, there is no negotiation. So with me, unless I really like you, or I don't know what but, so what I started to do is, first of all, doing multi-layer leather using two different types with three different types of leather, shades, collars, textures, and so I would set them up you have your base layer, let's say it's a black square, and let's say I don't know I mean let's make it simple letter C is the logo and the color is black and orange. So my base layer is black. My top layer is orange, which I would make smaller and I would leave the edge of the sea out and I would marry two pieces together, sew them together and now you have For an awesome two-layer patch of two different like I said, like, I got this crazy alligator texture, which is not so cool. I don't know if it's gonna work, but it looks amazing. But now you have a two-layer patch. Now, obviously, there is more work going into it. But it's unique. And it's different than anything else. Another thing that we tried and we were very successful with is taking sheets of leather screenprint them first with the design. And then we put the sheet on their laser, and we add the laser edge part of the design to it. And then we got the patches out. So that looks amazing. I mean, we did it with one college just to see how do we line everything up between the screenprint and the laser. It took us a few tries, but we got it figured out. We did the one-color print on the leather, and it came out. 

Marshall Atkinson  

Awesome. That's cool. So you could like screenprint, a color, or a pattern onto the leather, and then cut your image out with the laser. 

Artem Ionitsa  

And you can still ask for details with the laser as well. Right. So you'll have a multimedia design, you'll have part of the logo that is screen printed called part of the logo. That is laser-etched.

Marshall Atkinson  

Okay, okay, that's cool. And yeah, it's very cool. And so when you're creating custom stuff like this, it goes beyond the commodity of I can get that somewhere else because No, you can because we just invented that here yesterday.

Artem Ionitsa  

Yep. Well, yeah, pretty much. And that's the idea. That's the idea with everything I do. Because of my philosophy here. I mean, it's not that I have a lot of clients that I can tell him to, you know, go find somebody else. But becoming more comfortable, I guess, to tell my clients to know, where before I was jumping on older workers, which was a guess I had to go through this experiences to learn that it's okay to tell your clients No, and that's what I'm becoming more and more comfortable with. And that said, in bringing value. So all I tell my clients is, hey, if you want a $5 T-shirt, I'm not your guy. But if you want something unique, different, and awesome, it'll cost you but I can make it happen. And that's what I tell all of my clients I'm like, go to I don't care, Neiman Marcus, buy any garment you want in there with any branding that you think you like and you want to see your logo done the same way. There is a nice 99% chance I'll figure it out. And I've done it over and over and over again.

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Marshall Atkinson  

I think while everyone always thinks in this industry, it's got to be screen printing. It's got to be embroidery. You also do dye sublimation and we already talked about embossing and debossing What do you think of the appeal is to customers to do something different to not do the same thing we've done all the time. Yeah, well,

Artem Ionitsa  

so when I started my business, I when I started I said two things. I'm not gonna do embroidery and screenprint I'm gonna do everything else. Which was okay, I did in the beginning when I started this, but I mean the first piece of equipment. So I rented the shop it was 2500 square foot shop. The first thing I bought was my Galva laser. It was a $100,000 laser. I put it in the corner of my 2500 square foot shop. And I go okay, now what so because I was anti I hated embroidery and screen printing ideally like mostly because everyone was doing it. And I said I'm gonna be the chap that does everything else. So dye sublimation was the second piece of equipment that I bought so I bought the Epson, I don't know 37 sits short collar, I don't know 46-inch wide dye-sublimation printer. I got the maxi press from Jean night and the stall press like a bunch of presets. And I'm like dye sublimation is cool. Nobody does. But of course, after I bought everything I started doing more research and it's more sports apparel type decoration, and I'm like, oh boy, what did I get myself into right now? So I started so dye sublimation, I started doing something different with it. So I started doing it on the Polos started doing it on the fleece garments. And it was awesome. It's not for everyone. But I've done a few designs few concepts for the zoo when I took the chameleon. And I dye sublimated this chameleon white polish shirt and I laser-etched something it was very tonal, very subtle because I figured you don't need any more branding than this huge chameleon on your polo. So we started doing a lot of stuff. And then fairly quickly, I said, not my thing. I don't like it. So I kind of stopped doing dye sublimation because dye sublimation was the market that I wasn't necessarily excited about. So I said no. But so I still kept the equipment. Because actually that was the equipment that was kept me through COVID Because we started making face masks in-house. And my equipment was paid for in the first two weeks. Probably. Right, sir? Yeah, so dye sublimation is cool. If you have other machines, I guess, like embroidery, or Merrill Edge, you know, machines like I'm not using dye sublimation anymore. But what I started doing with dye sublimation I started doing you know, those woven labels that you get from China 500 for 50 bucks, well, I still do getting them from China, whether they need 500,000 10,000 of those women labels, when I need to make a sample for my client and do something, you know, cool and different. Like this woven label tag that you can put on a sleeve, you can put it on the pocket, you know, you have million different locations. That's what I use it for. I bought the half an inch and a half ribbon from Amazon. I caught it with my laser in these little sections. And now I create these woven labels that I can sew on the beanie on the hat, on the t-shirt everywhere. And it's amazing. And it looks awesome. And you can do a million colors that you can do with the woman tags. So that's how I resolved that issue.

Marshall Atkinson  

That's a good tip. I love that. So for sure. So I think as an industry, there's tons of movement toward print on demand doing especially with online stores, using direct to garment, you know, DTG and now the big thing is direct the film. How are you thinking about that? And what moves have you made into that area?

Artem Ionitsa  

Okay, direct-to-garment DT -- direct-to-film, hate it.

Marshall Atkinson  

You hate everything!

Artem Ionitsa  

I hate everything because I tried everything. And so I mean, obviously yes, the industry changed with the COVID will and it will change without the COVID. So printing on demand. Yes. Awesome. If you have staff, I don't I'm sure it staff s is and will I just I bought it last year DTF printer, I bought it from China, I went a little suicidal, I said I'll give it a try. So the reason why I purchased it was so as I mentioned to you before I'm building my new website is gonna have the, you know, print on demand type setup, I'm gonna have my minimum, probably, I don't know yet. I was thinking about 24. But I feel like 24 is a little too high. So maybe I'll drop it to six. The reason why I went DTF versus direct to garment is direct to garment equipment is expensive. I mean, the printer, the new Epson, I believe it's like $50,000++ you buy old the treatment units and all this other nonsense. I'm like, I'm not spending $60,000 on a machine that prints a t-shirt, you know, you have to pretreat them blah, blah, blah. Like I'm not telling you the one-offs like that's not my game, but I like the idea. So I'm not mentally there yet. But I know that's the future. So I want to take baby steps. So that's why I bought a DTF printer from China for $10,000. 

Marshall Atkinson  

So you can play with that and learn how to do smaller print runs where you just use that as transfers to transfer onto the garment. 

Artem Ionitsa  

So with that -- so I bought it last year, it's been sitting in a crate for six months probably. I'm like, What is this box over here? What's going on there like to see our printer. I'm like, oh my god, I forgot that. But because we were just so busy and I was trying to do different things, you know, just to stay afloat, just stay a life. So I totally forgot about this printer. So we started playing with it. I liked the idea. I liked the technology. I've been using these heat transfers since day one. So before Supercolor, there was a company in Sweden there was making those heat transfers. I don't know how I found them. But I did. So I was flying those heat transfers from Sweden via DHL through New York Priority Mail. Oh my god. That's another story. But I always love the idea of those heat transfers. And me being in Washington State and those heat transfers being water-based. It was an awesome selling point. Again, nobody's doing it. In the United States of America, I was probably the only one who was suicidal enough to bring those transfers from Sweden, out of all places, paying in Euros.

Marshall Atkinson  

Your motto is I'll try anything,

Artem Ionitsa  

I'll try anything, especially if I like it. And I believe in it. There are a lot of things I don't believe in. But like deboss, the which we need to get back to because deboss is the most amazing thing. But anyway, so DTF, I bought it, it doesn't come with the manual, it doesn't come with anything, you kind of have to figure it out on your own freelance about each. So I have to pronounce white and the color CMYK each cost anywhere from 500 plus shipping. So like you're looking at the 600 on the printhead number five right now, I broke this thing so many times. I shipped the motherboards back to China to get them fixed. I know this machine inside out right now. And I hate it. It's horrible, but I'm like I should probably sell it. But I'm not gonna sell it because I still believe the value is there. Because my whole idea was when I bought it. It was last year, like pre-Christmas. And I thought, if everything goes well, I'll get it before Christmas. And my idea was to do the ugly Christmas sweaters. You know, that crazy pattern? Yeah, I didn't want to screenprint that, because I'm like, There's no way like all the breweries, wineries that I have around here, I'm surrounded by 170 wineries. I'm like, I'm not screenprinting that. So I figured I'll just buy the sprinter. And I'll just we'll design the same kind of concept for each wiener and we'll just swap the nature and I'll just print them keep pressing and Bada bing bada boom done. It did not happen until like three months ago. So I don't want to sell it. I still like it is just I need to learn. I mean, I think I know everything about everything by now. But it's just it's an awesome concept because you can print on any garment. Like I had, the client came in, he ordered polo shirts, 100% polyester from an online company, not gonna mention any names. It's a colorful logo, they did the direct to garment on it, the colors are not even close to being what they're supposed to be. I'm like, if I had my printer running, I would do a heat transfer and it would look freaking awesome. So I'm not you know, this printer is not for me to do a six or one-off. I do have large clients that need 10 shirts. I'm not going to screenprint I want to do it directly to the garment. But mostly I bought this piece of equipment to do samples, give people ideas, give them something in their hand. This is more for samplings, just giving people ideas and giving them options. And again, with this type of heat transfer, you can transfer on anything. Hats, jackets, backpacks, tote bags, anything you want. So options are amazing. And that's where DTG lacks a little bit. So that's why I went with the DTF plus what I was thinking what I can do with the DTF again, going back to those laser edge patches that I hate so much, I can do a heat transfer, I can press the heat transfer on that piece of leather. Now I have a full color exposing you know portions of the leather. I can't have that full-color imprint on the leather patch that is sewn on the Habermann beanie on whatever you want. Boom. Here's another decoration technique or call it multimedia.

Marshall Atkinson  

So the art of what's the story with debossing and embossing what exactly is that?

Artem Ionitsa  

That's the most amazing decoration technique ever. The easiest one ever. And it's the most premium one ever. Because when people talk about emboss, deboss, so deboss is down. So D four down. So when people talk about emboss, deboss, they automatically think about hard goods, you know, your portfolios, your journals, your, I don't know, the hard goods that I don't like to do. So my machine, that's another story, but I bought my machine in Texas during the hurricane, which was awesome. Which was

Marshall Atkinson  

awesome. You always have a fun story.

Artem Ionitsa  

I have a story for the best deboss press that comes from Germany, which is, it's amazing. So all the companies here in North America, they're using their equipment, most likely, you know, debossing invoicing on hard goods. And I found this piece of equipment, I said, I'll never go to do hard goods, because it's boring, and it's whatever. So I said, I'm gonna use it on apparel, and apparel I did. It's awesome. So like I said, I have a company here in Oregon they do. So it's a magnesium dye. left chest, as I said, my cost. If I do again, run anywhere from 20 to 30 bucks. When I sell my one-time setup fee, I can sell that dye for anything I want 100 bucks. I mean, I'm being fair to my clients, so I sell it for 65. So here you go. Here's your 100% markup just in the setup right there. I don't have to do anything. If you look at any high-end brand, that does sportswear or lifestyle brands, though, using emboss or deboss. So Under Armour logo, boom, Ryder deboss I mean, there are so many different brands that are using this technology. And I've been using it too. And that's why I love to have this type of unique machine because it's just like I said before, they're my door openers. Nobody does it. There is no competition. Not in Washington, not in Oregon, not in California, there's a handful of companies that can actually do it. So the equipment is amazing. You can decorate pretty much anything you want. I've done it on hats, I've done it on jackets, polo shirts, anything polyester works 100% Boom, easy, and there is no backing needed. So you know how people sometimes complain? Oh, you're gonna have this white backing on the back of your embroidery. With the deboss. There is no backing because pretty much Melton forms the fabric, all this piece of equipment is a huge hydraulic press with the heating element. That's all it is. So it's heap time and pressure. That's what makes that impression in the garment.

Marshall Atkinson  

Like making a diamond. Exactly, exactly exactly

Artem Ionitsa  

only takes when the M debossing. Let's say on the polo shirts I did. It takes 13 seconds to deboss 13 seconds when I deboss. I just deboss a bunch of journals for Amazon to give us a journal that takes five seconds. If I would do a wholesale if I decide to do a wholesale, which I don't do, if I decide to do wholesale for debossing I can easily sell it starting at $7 per impression $7 And it takes me 13 seconds to press. Why not? Right? So it's all about the perceived value like Jeffrey was saying. So that's the best I believe mostly because I like everything Sato and I buy the equipment based on what I like mad wood, you know, trending right now. So that's how I got this deboss press. Again during COVID, I was able to experiment with it a lot. Have you seen the shirts that were embossed and have huge imprints on the front? So I never have done it before. So the way those garments are made you have male and the female die. And that's how you pretty much with the heat and pressure in time you pretty much just stretch the fabric out. So I bought this little silicone deboss silicone from China again because you can buy this stuff in the states that where I don't know where to look. So I said you know what, I'll just buy it from China. And I did and I bought the dyes. I mean I've learned a lot I mean the dyes the way they made them I didn't like it so I already know how to modify make them better make them cooler. So what we were able to accomplish was not only to emboss where the designers brace and design the widget was I believe 12 by 10 inches, which is humongous. And we did it on a t-shirt. And with this silicone which is xs, he Civ oh my god is looked amazing. Even though I don't like to do it on the t-shirt. If it was me, I would do with independent sweatshirts, which I love. And I did. And it looks awesome. So not only we were able to figure out how to do the debossed part is easy, like I can teach anyone in five minutes how to do the Gibbes. This process is a little bit more complicated. But it's amazing. And what again, during COVID, what we were able to do, not only to do this emboss on the garment, we were able to print on top of the embossed area. We did a one-color print, which was awesome. We said, Oh my God, what can we do to can we do three? Can we do four? And we tried it? They were like, yes, we can. Yes, we can. So we try that and have sold any? No. But what can we do it? Yes. So it's all about satisfying my needs. Getting it to the next level. That's all I do around here. I'm just looking for trouble.

Marshall Atkinson  

Take care, what you have to do first is yes, invent the process and master it. And then you can take it to clients and say, "Hey, this is something different. How many do you want?"

Artem Ionitsa  

Yeah, I mean, I do deboss for a bunch of clients. And they all love it. And it's awesome for me, because I know they're not going to be able to get it anywhere else. So I know they're stuck with me well, for good or bad. But exactly. And that's my whole philosophy when I was Logo UnLtd my slogan or my saying was "Not Your Average Decorators". That was my go-to phrase. But every time I said what decorator I was thinking about, you know, house decorator, and I'm like, I hate the word decorator. But that was my thing. We were not your average decorators. So, all the processes, I do all the processes in my tiny 5000 square foot warehouse, I do everything in-house except direct to garment, but you name it, I do, including custom pockets, which I built a machine to the custom pockets, but that's for another time.

Marshall Atkinson  

Okay. I love it. I love it. So thank you so much for sharing your story of success with us today. If someone wants to learn more about what you do, or how you can help them, what is the best way to contact you?

Artem Ionitsa  

Here's my address 19628 144th Ave, -- The best way to do to come here, that's the only way because this zoom thing and not an in-person thing is not going to work. Because if somebody wants to learn, I am more than willing to teach anyone, whatever I learned. And unfortunately for me the hard way. So I'm rebranding I'm going to be soon Logo Unlimited. Unlimited will be spelled out. Right now. I'm just UnLtd but yeah, the website logounltd.com email is my name, artem@logounltd.com called me, send me a letter, email, anything you like. But like I said, the best week is to come in see with your own eyes. Because I can go on and on and on about everything. 

Marshall Atkinson  

So thank you so much for your time today are really fun talking with you. And I appreciate you, buddy. 

Artem Ionitsa  

Thank you, Marshall. Thank you for having me.

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